I guess I'm here...

Work prioritization by the chipKIT core development team
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Jacob Christ
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Re: I guess I'm here...

Post by Jacob Christ » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:07 pm

Here are some core ideas (not all of them) but it would be good to start this discussion and then we can formalize them on the chipKIT.net web page.

- The spirit of chipKIT is to stay inline with the spirit of Arduino. That is making it easy for the new user or non-technical user. So if the changes don't confuse a new user or an existing user (that is new to embedded development) then we are okay. EDIT: Can a user download a new version of MPIDE and it works as well or better than a previous version?

- chipKIT is a fork of Arduino project and we don't have to stay compatible, but doing so may help us improve MPIDE by being able to pull innovations from Arduino (and visa versa in that changes that started in MPIDE escalated development of Due)

- What your doing is inline with ideas that have floated around for awhile. May not have been the way I would have done it, but its hard to argue with working.

- I'm a lone voice and these are only my opinions.

Jacob
PONTECH Quick240 an industrial form factor platform for chipKIT and Arduino users.

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majenko
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Re: I guess I'm here...

Post by majenko » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:25 pm

Jacob Christ wrote:Here are some core ideas (not all of them) but it would be good to start this discussion and then we can formalize them on the chipKIT.net web page.

- The spirit of chipKIT is to stay inline with the spirit of Arduino. That is making it easy for the new user or non-technical user. So if the changes don't confuse a new user or an existing user (that is new to embedded development) then we are okay. EDIT: Can a user download a new version of MPIDE and it works as well or better than a previous version?
Ideal outcome of all this: The user downloads a new version, doesn't see any immediate difference, and wonders why they upgraded ;)

I have spent a long time on the Arduino forums, so I know pretty well the abilities of the average Arduino user. Most of the changes are entirely beneath the hood and the average user shouldn't even know they're there. All they'll know is that it works, and that they can download a "board" from a third party and drop it into their boards folder and it "just works". Should make things simpler for them - means they never have to edit config files, etc.

Some of the changes take an existing system and improve upon it whilst fitting it into the new internal structure - such as the bootloader burning system. With it now providing a proper GUI for selecting what to burn and what with it should be far more intuitive than the old system.
Jacob Christ wrote:- chipKIT is a fork of Arduino project and we don't have to stay compatible, but doing so may help us improve MPIDE by being able to pull innovations from Arduino (and visa versa in that changes that started in MPIDE escalated development of Due)
Ideal situation: Arduino forks MPIDE :D

Compatibility with Arduino is important to me - at least as far as the end user is concerned. That's why I have upgraded the AVR core to 1.0.4 and ensured that sketches compile with it. I use both Arduino and chipKIT boards, and being able to reliably use one single environment for them both would be a real bonus.
Jacob Christ wrote:- What your doing is inline with ideas that have floated around for awhile. May not have been the way I would have done it, but its hard to argue with working.
I am always open to suggestions and ideas. This current iteration of my code is just my own personal thoughts about how the goals* can be achieved. It may not be the best way, nor the most efficient (remember, I am new to Java, so don't know all the "wonderful" things it can do), so input from others both with Java experience, MPIDE internals experience, and even just end user experience (that last may be one of the most important of all) is vital.
Jacob Christ wrote:- I'm a lone voice and these are only my opinions.
Everyone's opinions are unique, and always backed by a lone voice. Get lots of lone voices together and you either have a committee (in which case you have 99% arguing and 1% output), or a choir (in which case it's pretty much all output ;) ). I'm hoping for the choir - I've been told I have a good tenor voice :D

=M=

* Goals as I see them: 1. API compatibility with Arduino 1.x. 2. Simple to add new boards. 3. Simple to add new target platforms. 4. Simple to install and use. 5. Doesn't confuse someone moving from Arduino to chipKIT. If 2 and 3 can be done with a simple drag-and-drop of folders, then that is simple enough for me.
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driedeker
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Re: I guess I'm here...

Post by driedeker » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:14 pm

just tried to get the widows version but got a no permission reply

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majenko
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Re: I guess I'm here...

Post by majenko » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:18 pm

Try again - just fixed it...
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ricklon
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Re: I guess I'm here...

Post by ricklon » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:39 pm

Majenko, I love the fact that you are making Linux packages. I was wondering if that can be automated into the build.xml file? If not I'd like to make a basic procedure to get it going.

Also, I want to release the next official MPIDE ASAP. The changes you made recently I'm totally happy with. I think the uploader and other changes would go in the next release.

--Rick

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Re: I guess I'm here...

Post by majenko » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:50 pm

I already have the deb creation in my recent build.xml (ant deb -> deb-linux) - grab it from my repo. It's mainly a copy of the dist-linux target with very basic deb creation instead of tarballing. There's some files in linux/dist/usr that will need to be included too. I could work on adding it to master and creating a pull request for it if you like.

I'm not expecting anything I have been doing recently to be going straight into an MPIDE release (except the stuff I've done pull requests for) - all this "new" stuff is mainly experimental and for a final release I am expecting some bits to make the cut and others not. I am always having ideas and thoughts, and the best way for me to work them out is to implement them. Anything that comes of it that's desirable can be taken at will, and anything not suitable can be scrapped. It's sort of the sum total of the strangeness that goes on in my head ;) Explore what I have done (am doing), and let me know what you like and what you don't like. There's quite a lot in there now...

The most recent additions:

1. Per-board libraries. You can now add libraries to a board folder so they only show up if that board is selected. Allows you to bundle support libraries for the hardware on your board with the board definition. Great for custom hardware.
2. Sketchbook menu broken into chunks. My sketchbook menu was useless as it had more entries in it than could be displayed. Now it displays only 20 entries in a menu with a "More..." menu at the top which opens another sub-menu. Makes it actually usable.

Oh, btw, as well as that download location I also have the debs on my development apt repository:

deb http://autobuild.majenko.co.uk/dist/ <distribution> main

(eg deb http://autobuild.majenko.co.uk/dist oneiric main)

gpg key (add with "sudo apt-get add autobuild.key): http://autobuild.majenko.co.uk/dist/autobuild.key

Then you can apt-get update, and apt-get install mpide (and it does the dependencies too).
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driedeker
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Re: I guess I'm here...

Post by driedeker » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:20 am

Have test on win xp sp3 and chipkit max ,
uploads the first time to io board but failes from then onwards.
reset max32 and same problem. here is what appears at download
will test on mega2560 next


Binary sketch size: 36504 bytes (of a 520192 byte maximum)
Communications subsystem: [null]
[C:\mpide-0023-windows-20130415-23-nbs\hardware\tools\avr/bin/avrdude] [-cstk500v2] [-P\\.\COM7] [-b115200] [-D] [-Uflash:w:C:\DOCUME~1\DRIEDE~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\build4091754129542664626.tmp\driedekerV4_9.cpp.hex:i] [-CC:\mpide-0023-windows-20130415-23-nbs\hardware\tools/avr/etc/avrdude.conf] [-q] [-q] [-p32MX795F512L]

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majenko
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Re: I guess I'm here...

Post by majenko » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:11 am

When it's failing, try the upload in verbose mode (shift and click) for more detail. Also, run the IDE from a command prompt window so that you can get more debgging information.
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"I was trying to find out if it was possible to only eat one Jaffa Cake. I had to abandon the experiment because I ran out of Jaffa Cakes".

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